Home > Tawheed > Difference between Muslims saying we don’t describe the “hows” of Allah’s attributes and Christians saying the same about the Trinity?

Difference between Muslims saying we don’t describe the “hows” of Allah’s attributes and Christians saying the same about the Trinity?


Bismillah Hir Rahmaan Nirraheem

When a man came to Imam Malik and questioned how Allah ascends on His throne, Imam Malik responded, “The settling above is known, and how it is so is unknown, and asking about it is a form of innovation. So expel this man, for he is an innovator.” This is a well known response describing the position of The Salaf in not getting into the “hows” of Allah’s attributes. Is this position different from the Christians refraining from getting into the “hows” of the concept of Trinity and telling their followers to blindly follow that God is one but exists simultaneously in three forms – The Father (God), Son (Jesus) and the Holy Ghost?

In order to answer this question, let us look at the sources of these two positions. The Muslims derive their positions on names and attributes of Allah from the authentic revealed knowledge of the Noble Quran and authentic traditions of Prophet Muhammad (SAW). There are countless evidences confirming the prophet-hood of Muhammad (SAW) and the authenticity of the Quran as Allah’s speech revealed to Muhammad (SAW) through angel Jibreel (AS). To name a few, there is an open challenge from Allah to produce a single chapter like the Quran, which is unmet to this day. There are many science related ayahs in the Quran, all of which modern science has either already confirmed or not discovered yet. These scientific proofs are documented in many books such as Maurice Bucaille’s “The Bible, The Quran and Science” confirming the scientific accuracy of the Quran and the scientific fallacies of the Bible. Similarly, recommendations of Prophet Muhammad have and are being confirmed by modern science. The linguistic perfection of the Quran conveyed by an unlettered prophet is sufficient evidence by itself. Other proofs include the predictions in the Quran and Sunnah materializing, among many others.

Furthermore, Allah has promised to preserve the Quran, We have sent down the Reminder, and We will preserve it” and true to that promise, the Quran remains preserved in written form as well as in memory, passed through generation without a single error. Furthermore, the rigorous authentication and classification process of the science of Hadith (narrations of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)), has ensured preservation of this secondary form of revealed guidance.

The concept of Trinity on the other hand is a major deviation from Prophet Jesus’ (AS) original teachings – the message of unity of Allah conveyed by the previous prophets of Allah and the last prophet, Muhammad (PBUH). The Bible is not the word of God, rather it is penned by humans claimed to be the inspiration of God. Although it may contain some original revelations and teachings of Jesus (AS), it is corrupted with infusion of thoughts of the various authors and editors of the different versions of Gospels. The concept of trinity was preached by one such author, Paul, and this dogma was codified in the council of Nicaea in 323 AD for strategic reasons by the Roman emperor.

Having established the authenticity of the Quran and Sunnah as revealed knowledge, now let us assess why the Muslims do not go to the ‘hows’ of Allah. The implication of names and attributes is in accordance with their intended obvious meanings and changing them is prohibited as Allah has commanded in the following verse: “Say: Indeed my Lord, has forbidden external and internal corruption,…, and that you speak about Allah without knowledge.” [7:33] Shaik Al Uthaimeen has also noted that “All of Allah’s attributes are transcendent, attributes of perfection and praise, without any deficiency in any respect,” as stated in the following Quranic verse: “And to Allah belongs the supreme example.” [Surah Nahl 16:60]

Having established that Allah’s names and attributes are in accordance with their obvious intended meanings in revelation and that Allah’s attributes are perfect, it is impossible for human beings to go into the hows of Allah because Allah The Almighty says: “Their knowledge cannot encompass Him.” Hence it is not possible for the finite, imperfect human mind to conceive and comprehend the infinite and perfect attributes of Allah. While there might be resemblance in name, such as Allah’s ‘hands’, the similarity ends at that; and it is impossible to imagine what Allah’s hands might look like. The imaginary description is forbidden as it is not based on knowledge but the human mind’s imagination is an amalgamation of observations from creation.

Therefore the Islamic position is to accept the obvious meanings of Allah’s attributes as revealed in the Quran and authentic Sunnah, acknowledging that they are attributes of perfection and not delving into the ‘hows’ as it is incomprehensible by the human mind. The concept of ‘Trinity’ on the other hand is not based on any authentic revealed knowledge, rather it is conspired and codified by humans, so it becomes mandatory to delve into such concocted concepts to separate truth from falsehood and to guide humanity to the salvation that is accepted by The Lord of the Universe.

References:

Quran [Al-Hijr 15: 9]

Quran [Surah Taahaa 20:110]

The Radiance of Faith, Dr. Bilal Philips

“The Historical Jesus”, Khalid Yasin [Video Lecture]

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  1. Muhammad Elijah
    December 8, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Assalaamu ‘Alaikum waRahmatu(A)llaahi waBarakaatuh
    It is the religious duty of every Muslim to guide Nasaaraa(Christians) at every single opportunity to repent from the Shirk of trinitarian idolatry.Otherwise, they are destroying their Aakhirah(The Hereafter), because Maghfirah(Forgiveness from Allaah) of Shirk is not possible.
    May Allaah make us all Du’aat(Callers) towards Allaah and His Tawheed(Strict Islamic monotheism and unitarianism), like Nooh ‘alaihis salaam.

    • December 23, 2010 at 7:47 pm

      Walikum Salam WRBT.

      Yes br. Muhammad, the false ideology about the Trinity is plaguing our world and impeding millions of people from worshiping Allah alone. We all need the persistence and tenacity of Nuh (AS) to tackle the evil deception by Shaitan.

      Jazak Allahu Khairan.

  2. xyz
    January 2, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    I have some confusions, I would like if you help me out please:

    1-if Allah is “all-just”, then he cannot be “all-merciful”…it’s like saying, someone is a “married-bachelor”…justice contradicts mercy, and mercy contradicts justice. if you’re all fair, then you’re just, if you pours mercy upon someone, you’re not just, these attributes can not exist in parallel.

    2-if Allah is “all-knowing”, and he knows what’s going to happen in the day after today, then whether 1)he cannot change it, because he already knows what’s going to happen tomorrow 2) He can change it if he wills. if it’s the first case, then knowing the future puts limits on Allah. and if it’s the second case, then he doesn’t know the future, because he changed it.

    3-how can Allah be “manifest” and “hidden” at the same time?

    4-I don’t understand how does Allah has “2-hands”!…in one case, Islam teaches that there can not be any photo/picture/idol of Allah, and that it is strictly haram to give a form to Allah, while Allah himself urges man’s mind to give form to him by saying he has 2 hands.

    I’m sorry but these questions have given me much pain, I’m a Muslim, and I accept and embarrassingly agree that I have far lesser eeman than you might have, but I’m trying to learn Islam genuinely and I have these questions that I have no answers for. please help me out.

    • January 6, 2011 at 5:50 pm

      Salam Alikum. Thank you for brining up your questions as it takes courage to admit doubt and seek clarification. May Allah help you become firmer in your emaan and climb the highest ranks of Jannah.

      1. Understanding the Arabic terms for the attributes can be helpful. Allah is Absolutely Merciful and Absolutely Justice. They are not contradictory. The reason one may be confused because we think mercy is letting go no matter what. Imagine a mother who’s 5 children had been killed by a serial killer. Would it be merciful to let the serial killer go in this world and the next world? It would be unmerciful to the mother. Infact the delaying of punishment of those who commit the biggest crimes of associating partners with Allah is a sign of His mercy. They disobey Him, are arrogant, insult Him, yet He responds to their prayers and provides sustenance in this world.

      2. Here, you are talking about Qard or Destiny and Allah’s attribute that He is All-Knowing. The correct belief is that Allah has destined all that is to occur and He knows what happened in the past and what will happen in the future. He has given us free will or choice, so he does not force us to choose, rather He knows what choice we are going to make. If you study time from the scientific perspective, it will come clear to you that space-time is relative and there are other dimensions where our concept of time is irrelevant. However, if you’re not familiar with that, we won’t get to it.
      Allah has set certain rules with which the universe functions, how ever he can do what He wills. So any things out of the ordinary is something we may call “miracle” but it is Allah showing us He has power over all things. He can change what He wills and knowing the future does not limit it. For instance X was going to happen, we make dua and Allah decided to change X to Y. So to us only Y has happened and we with our limited knowledge would not know that X was going to happen originally.

      3- By the Authentic Quran & sunnah, we know that Allah is above His creation. They ayah “He rose above His throne…” and many others explain that above the seven heavens is The Throne above which is Allah. So He is not manifest (or a part of) in His creation (if that is what you mean). He is hidden because that is a part of the test of this life. If everyone could see Allah, nobody would disbelieve in Him nor disobey Him. So we are commanded to follow and obey Him despite not being able to see Him in this world. However His signs are manifest as a painting is a sign of the excellence of the painter, all the creation – Human body, animals, food system, water cycle, patterns of the design of the Universe etc etc etc are all signs of the Creator who designed and executed them all.

      4- Allah says in The Quran 42: 11, “Nothing is similar to Him…” Nothing in the creation is similar to Allah. So just because Allah says He has hands, we affirm He has hands but it is impossible for us to imagine what they look like. So obviously we can’t imagine a form and make a stuatue from our limited imagination. This imaginary description is forbidden as it is not based on knowledge but whatever the human mind imagines is based on what it observed with its senses from the creation. [For instance, the imaginary unicorn is actually a composition of a horse, a one horned animal (which really exists), etc..] Hense by trying to give form to Allah’s Hands we would be make the grave error of giving Allah characteristics of His creation!

      That was my quick attempt at your questions. I hope that helps, bee Idn Allah. If you need further clarification, let me know.

  3. xyz
    January 6, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    Assalam Alaykum wa rahmatuAllah dear brother in faith:)

    I don’t know you and you don’t know me, but I appreciate the time that you took out to answer my questions especially and the honesty and sincerety that you put in them, May Allah quench your thirst for knowledge and may he continue to guide you towards Haq ameen ameen thumma ameen

    1-this confusion is gone already, I tend to believe, I think you also implied the very similar thing, that Allah is always just in terms of the distribution of his mercy. He’s merciful upon the non-believers, but he will punish them also for what they do. He’s also merciful to the believers but he’ll reward us for what we do. So he distributes his mercy over certain people justly. is that what you mean?

    2-I have read about albert einstein’s theory of special relativity, M theory, quantum mechanics and 4 dimensional-ism, though my understanding of these subjects is not very much, but still, please say what you were going to say I’ll make sure that I understand it InshAllah:)…so by that example what you were saying was that, X was going to happen originally, and Allah knew that X was going to happen. but due to the dua Allah changed his will and Y happened. yeah?…that was precisely my question. you see, according to this model, Allah did NOT know the future, because he knew the future would manifest as X, but he changed his will and Y happened, so what he knew was going to happen did not happen. it needs clarification.

    3- that confusion is also gone, Allah is manifest(Al-Zaahir) through his clear signs, but hidden(Al-Baatin) because nobody has the capacity to see him through the limited 5 senses.

    4- My question was, I have always been raised to believe that there is no-form to Allah, that there is no image to Allah, that he doesn’t posses the human attributes at all. now tell me this br, aren’t humans kind, merciful, just, get happy, get angry, punish, reward?…though at a very limited scale as you might say, but still, these are attributes clearly common in Allah and the human beings, how would you justify it?…moreover, saying that Allah has hands, eyes etc…don’t they give form to him in a human mind?…and if Allah has hands, humans too have hands, though Allah’s hands are not even near to what we call hands, but still, they are hands…?let me phrase it, if you say there is none like him as surah al-ikhlas tells us, he should be unique in all of his attributes, but even we feel love, happiness, anger etc…Allah also gets angry, he also gets happy, he also loves hi slaves….so how can you say “these” attributes are uniqe? though even on an infinitely minute scale, human beings HAVE those features…they also hear, see, and have hands, though they are totally different to what Allah’s hands could be in their entirety, still, the words “hands” is used…I always imagined Allah before something that I could not imagine, lol, like…light, something like the “ether”, or intelligence as you might say, and I though I was perfectly on the right path of Islam by imagining this and I thought that was monotheism was all about, God which is something we CANNOT imagine!!…but when I read this, that Allah has hands, eyes, he laughs(according to a hadith), he has these emotions on an infinitely far greater level than the humans, though they are still emotions, it severely shattered my image of Allah . Now I’m in dire need of help brother, please help, I know my tone seems like the militant Atheist, but honestly, I’m a rational person, and I accept the truth wherever I find it, and I’m willing to learn and I know that deep inside how much afraid I get when I question the very word “Allah”!!…it shakes me, but you see, keeping quite doesn’t help, but speaking up, asking questions and then getting answers can ease the pain…May ALlah subhana wa ta’la forgive me for the way I spoke, I wouldn’t have been able to deliver my questions to you in any other fashion.

    Assalam Alaykum

  4. January 7, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Walikum Salam dear Brother,

    Thank you for reading my response and following up. Ameen to your dua and may Allah help us all in making what is true apparent and what is false apparent to us and keep us steadfast upon the straight path. Ameen.

    I will try to respond to the additional queries to the best of my ability, having said that I’m not a scholar 🙂

    1- Yes, I think you have a correct understanding of what I meant to convey. Alhumdlillah.

    2- Where I was getting at was that our dimensions of time does not apply to other beings. We live 3-D – space-time-mass world. Even Jinns / Angels that exist in a parallel dimension to us in this world (so non-3D) we cannot see them and they are not bound by the space time restrictions that we humans are. In the Quran, Allah gives example of a day where of is like our 1000 days and another instance like 50,000 days etc. Quantum Physics confirms that there are dimensions other than our own and parallel worlds although I haven’t delved too deep in the theories either.

    So our limited definition of future would be, knowledge of what is going to happen tomorrow in this world. So what is future to us, may not necessarily be so for Allah as He is not bound by the space-time restrictions as He created space-time. Space-time is only existent in this universe. Allah is beyond this Universe. Allah says in Ayatul Qursi: “He knows what happens to them in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter. And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills.”

    So He has only released enough knowledge to Humans that He feels is necessary for guidance, for our role as khalifa in this world etc. We haven’t even been able to create a fly with all this technology, all we have done is reproduce using the materials Allah provided.

    Simply speaking, Allah already knows all choices we are going to make. So persay He had willed for something to happen, He would also know that you would make dua and the new out come. Because without knowing so, How would Allah know who goes to Heaven and who would go to Hell? I think we just get caught up with our defitinitions of the word and putting perceived restrictions on Allah’s abilities.

    (cont…)

    • January 7, 2011 at 6:26 pm

      3 – Alhumdlillah

      4 – I can understand your confusion brother as you have been raised with a certain set of beliefs and when you come across all this new information, you are unable to reconcile the two. To clear this, we need to understand few basic rules when it comes to Allah’s Attributes:

      Rule #1: All of Allah’s attributes are transendent, attributes of perfection and praise, without any deficiency in any respect.

      “And to Allah belongs the supreme example.” (Quran 16:60)

      So although there might be similarity between a human attribute in name, such as you mentioned, the similarity ends there, in name. No deficiency is attributable to Allah. The Quran is communicated in Arabic, in a human language, so what you are implying is if no attribute ever known to us can be utilized to describe Allah, how can a human language be used? So Allah utilized a human messenger and a human language to give humans an idea of Allah although humans cannot completly comprehend.

      2. Three question may be asked about each and every one of Allah’s attributes:
      i) Is the attribute to be understood literally and why? Yes, because basic principle of understanding speech is according to its literal meaning unless authentic evidence exists which prevents us from doing so.
      For instance, If I tell you “I’m going to hit you”, it doesn’t mean that I am going to hit you with a fine unless the context implies it specifically.

      ii) Is it possible to describe how it is and why? Answer is “NO”, because Allah Almighty has said: “Their knowledge cannot encompass Him.” (Quran 20: 110)

      iii) Does it resemble human characteristics and why? No, divine attributes do not resemble the attributes of created being, as Allah said:

      “Nothing is similar to Him…” (Quran 42:11)

      So as stated earlier, the similarity ends with the name as Quran is communicated to us in a human language. Allah’s attributes does not contain any negativity or deficiency attributable to humans but are attributes of perfection. It is impossible for us to describes the “hows” of Allah’s attributes because there is nothing like Him and to Him belongs the supreme example. I think you have been fed the mis conception early on – When we hear that Allah is Ar Raheem or The Exceedingly Merciful for instance and we all know mother is merficul. So Allah has given us the example of mother’s mercy so we can get a minute glimpse or atleast begin to appreciate Allah’s mercy.

      Everything in this world is a glimpse into the next world. Allah has created wine but if we drink it, we get headache. In the next world we get the perfect version w/out headaches. Similary, wifes that don’t mensurate, no aging, sex without losing energy to name a few;

      I know the answer got a little long, but hopefully these will start leading you in the right direction in clarifying your misconceptions and help you in reconciling your earlier paradigms and the truth.

      If you want to get on the quest to learning more and strengthening your eman, I would highly recommend joining free courses at http://www.islamiconlineuniversity.com or if you want to commit to their Bachelors program which has a small fee: bais.islamiconlineuniversity.com

      Otherwise, if you just need some reading material on this topic or further clarification, feel free to let me know.

      Jazak Allah Khairan.

  5. xyz
    January 7, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Assalam Alaykum dear brother:)

    Thankyou very much for replying me back…

    2- With Allah being outside the universe, it makes perfect sense. Like the notions for “time-past”, “time-present” and “time-future” just belong to this universe. Space is just an illusion to make these notions separate for us, they might be one single entity to Allah too…or there might not be anything like “time” near to Allah subhana wa ta’la…it’s like if a person is travelling on a straight road on the earth, he has no idea where the road is leading him to, or that what’s it going to be like after 100 kms…but a person looking up from space to the earth knows and sees the entire road and its whereabouts…like if you’re 2 dimensional, you can not know what’s ahead of you until you go there, but a person from 3 dimensions, looking at you from this place called “height” sees you, and where you’re heading towards precisely….it’s perfect…but here’s the problem, Quran seems to mention that Allah also experiences time, just on a bit faster rate.

    Surah Hajj 22:47:
    “Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! But God will not fail in His Promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.”

    now I have read the tafisr on this verse, it says that it is saying that they are hurrying for the punishment, but near to Allah, even a day is like a 1000 years that we experience, so near to him their hurries don’t matter….but I’m not satisfied, this verse STILL implies that Allah experiences time…now if Qur’an says that Allah experiences time, then how can you justify that the laws of space and time don’t apply on Allah?…

    4-I’ve read your reply brother, but I’m not satisfied, your reply caused more problems. this problem needs more clarification with more logic…you yourself admitted, “the *similarity* ends with the name”. no matter how much little they are, we still share attributes that Allah has…now justify “there is none like him”!…and if Allah really has 2 hands, which seemingly is the case as you said that we have to take it literally, then why don’t we learn as children in our islamic texts the “hands”, “eyes” etc, as one of Allah’s features(now you see how absurd would it be if we would go on teach kids that Allah has hands and eyes but still we’re not hindus)?…and if that is the case, then please explain the verse where Allah says that he is near to our jugular vein…if this verse we take literally(which scholars DON’T take literally), then 1)there is a very BIG contradiction in the Qur’an, coz Quran also say that Allah rose over his throne and he’s somewhere up in the seventh sky2) what’s the difference b/w “pantheism” and “islam” then if they both teach that God is everywhere, in every creation!!??

  6. January 8, 2011 at 6:06 am

    Walikum Salam WRBT Dear Br. In Islam,

    No problem akhee. I will try to respond to your queries, bee idn Illah.

    2) I think what I said was Allah was beyond space-time, that is he is not bound by the restrictions of space-time. Yes, like they ayah that you have quoted where Allah says in a Day like a 1000 Days of your reckoning. In another instance Allah says like 50,000 days of your reckoning. Also, when Allah says that he created the Heavens & Earth in 6 days, it does not mean 6 human days but rather yaum is used as a period of time. All this is to make it clear to the human mind to obviously when Allah executes something in the Universe, its impact is felt in the universe, correct? It takes some period of time to manifest it self in this universe, correct? So this is what is being communicated when Allah says event X is going to happen in Y days of your reckoning, wa Allahu Allam.

    4- I was going to cover this in my previous response but left it out as I felt it was too long 🙂 The rules that I mentioned need some pondering to comprehend their meaning.

    i) Is the attribute to be understood literally and why? Yes, because basic principle of understanding speech is according to its literal meaning ***unless authentic evidence exists which prevents us from doing so.***

    The verse “…and I am closer to him than his jugular vein.” would led some to conclude that since jugular vein is inside the necks of humans, humans may worship other humans and themselves, which are forbidden acts and are Pantheistic as you suggested. However, we have clear evidence against this belief as stated in the condition highlighted above “we take the literal meaning ***unless authentic evidence exists which prevents us from doing so.***

    Surah Nahl 15:50 “They fear their Lord who is above them.” Additionally Prophet Muhammad (SAW) also declared a women a true believer when he asked her the question, “Where is Allah?” and she responded, “He is above the heavens.” (Sahih Muslim no.1094) The Mufassiroon of Ahlas Sunnah Wal Jamaa have agreed that on the verse you mentioned (Jugular vien), Allah is referring to closeness with respect to knowledge. He knows everything that you are doing, so beware of committing sins, disobeying Allah etc. as clear evidence exist in this case, so we don’t use the literal meaning. It is clear that God is NOT everywhere and is above the seven skies.

    The reason the scholars stress utilizing the literal meaning unless authentic evidence support a metaphorical meaning is that otherwise people would start interpreting verses according to their whims and desires and would lead people astray like many groups in the past. We only take the metaphorical meaning when there exists clear authentic evidence from Quran and Sunnah suggesting so.

    I pray that helps in alleviating some of your doubts akhee.

    • January 8, 2011 at 6:16 am

      BTW, I would highly recommend this book, that covers these topics: “A Commentary on Radiance of Faith” by Dr. Bilal Philips.

  7. xyz
    January 8, 2011 at 8:16 am

    Assalam Alaykum wa rahmatu ALlahi wabarakatuhu dear brother:)

    how are you? hope everything’s well and good:)

    2-that’s so understandable akhee. but the other two verses dealing with time have special events in them the execution of which takes that particular amount of time yh?…like the running of affair and the ascending of the angles and spirit(btw, why hazrat jibraeel referred to as spirit, and why he has given all these special ranks?and do angles literally have wings and stuff in Islam?) …but this particular verse refers to no event but simply say that a ady in the sight of your lord is like a 1000 years of your reckoning. now Allah just says a day, he doesn’t mention any particular event. that’s the problem I face, and if the creation of the universe in 6 days, if we take this amount of time ie:1000 years, it would be a blunder, coz the universe wasn’t created in 6000 years!…and if you say that you don’t take 1000 years to be as one day, why would you suggest so? as you said we do things only if there’s solid evidence to back it up, this verse could a solid evidence for my claim since this verse doesn’t mention any event, but just talks about “1 heavenly day”…now there are 2 questions for you, 1) prove to me that Allah is outside this universe and the laws of time-space doesn’t apply on him looking at this particular verse. 2) solve the mystery of the creation of this universe

    4) Alright, you cleared up what to be taken literally and what not to be. would this not count as evidence to not to take this verse literally:” there’s none like unto him” and that Islam strongly prohibits giving form to Allah? this way, hands should not to be taken literally isn’t it?…well anyhow akhee, I still don’t know how to reconcile my previous beliefs with these new additions…would I be a kuffar if I believe that Allah’s hands are a sign of power?…I’ll read the book inshAllah but please do provide more logic to this question akhee

  8. January 15, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Walikum Salam WRBT Dear Br.,
    Jazak Allahu Khairan for your follow up questions. InshaAllah, I will try to answer them to the best of my knowledge. However, as I had advised that you take the opinion of a knowledgable scholar as well who would be able to clarify better than I can. Hopefully, the book is of benefit to you.
    1) OK, lets focus on the basic issue here – which is complete reliance on logic as an article of faith versus using Quran and the Hadith as the source of faith. Consider the verses below [Al Quran 2:3-5]
    “Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,”
    “And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith].”
    “Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful.”
    The first ayah establishes the fact that just because we cannot understand or have not discovered yet does not mean it doesn’t exist. Example nobody could have imagined our universe was so vast and expanding [Quran 51:47] nor that most living creatures were created with water[21:30], 1400 years ago, but mentioned in the Quran. Similarly just because we don’t haven’t proved the existence of angels, Day of Judgement etc. today does not imply they don’t exist. All the scientific proof existing in the Quran is enough logic for us to believe in the unseen that we don’t yet comprehend. That is what belief demands from us. It would ground the basis on what is mentioned about creation of the Universe etc. and nothing in the Quran contradicts science. I haven’t done additional research above what is in this video,
    Quran and Modern Science: Compatible or Incompatible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E66BYipz0o0
    About solving the mystery on “How this universe was created” or How humans are created, if we knew that information, then what would prevent us from playing God? We know how to make TV or construct a bridge, so we do them. Allah has released how much ever knowledge He wants us to know to fulfill our role as Khalifa (vicergents) on earth and enough signs to believe in Him and sent messengers as a mercy from Him to guide us towards the path that leads us to success. This is the same argument I made on this original issue that we don’t get into “Hows” of Allah’s attributes as if it was necessary for us to know more about them, Allah would have revealed through His messenger.

    4) There is “Nothing Like Unto Him”. However, this verse is not evidence for denying the attributes that Allah has assigned to Him-self in the Quran. As explained before, there is simply nothing that can compare with the attributes of Allah. As proved before we cannot imagine what His hands may look like so that means that there is “Nothing Like Unto Him”. Hense, it is impossible for us to draw forms etc. (like Hindus) and make idols because we would be assigning deficiency to Allah and assigning human mind’s limitations.
    Allah puts those He is most pleased with in the highest levels of Heaven, right? Humans also get pleased. Just because they are similar in name does not mean they are the same. All of Allah’s attributes are attributes of perfection without any deficiency. So this line of thought of purely relying on rationalism is flawed. The Quran and Authentic Sunnah are the sources for belief.
    For an explanation by somebody who is much more well-versed in logic than I am:

    The Basis of Muslim Belief (Logic Related) : Gary Miller: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muFJX880cOc

    Regarding the question about it kafir, I honestly don’t think you become khafir akhee, but just hold views that are deviant. Wa Allahu Alaam. It is best to seek help in clarifying those misconception from scholars, and repent as soon as you’re convinced.

    May Allah Bless you my dear akhe and help you in your pursuit of knowledge and truth and fill your heart with emaan.

    Jazak Allah Khairan Akhee,
    Nihal

  9. xyz
    January 16, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Assalam ALaykum wa rahmatuAllahi wabarakatuhu dear Akhee:)

    May Allah be pleased with you and may he bestow upon you all of his blessings in here and in the here after:)

    1) Whatever you said, I totally agree with you, and it’s not hard to believe in angles etc, firstly because they are articles of faith, secondly becausee the reason that you gave. However, the question on Allah, being inside of space-time, or outside of it still remains. And the creation of this universe in 6 days, who’s length Allah says is, 1000 years of our reckoning DOES go against science. becaus the universe is NOT 6000 years old!…I told you the verse I’m talking about here, doesn’t mention any event, it just says that “a day in your lord’s sight is like a 1000 years of your reckoning”…it implies…1) Allah is infact IN spacetime and experiences time, just on a bit faster rate(and this view brings the old problem of knowing the future back)
    2) that the universe, according to this amount of time, was made in 6000 years of our reckoning, which is CLEARLY wrong!…I just wanna know what does th verse say brother?…honestly!…is Allah inside space-time or not? if not then what evidence do you have?…and Is this the same amount of time which Allah used when saying that the universe was made in 6 days?

    4) Alright brother, I agree with you on this one, but still I’m not fully satisfied…well, don’t you think that this verse might explain human beings being similar to Allah’s emotional nature(on a very very infinitely small scale)…”15:29 “When I have fashioned him and breathed into him of My spirit, fall you down in obeisance unto him.”?…ask a scholar brother if you can…

    I’m sorry I couldn’t reply to your mail because I was a bit busy, I have watched most of those videos and I read some of the book as well, and I’m gonna watch this second programn from Mr gary miller inshAllah

    Hope to see you soon:)

    Assalam Alaykum

  10. xyz
    January 16, 2011 at 11:39 am

    what does ilm rush mean btw? just curious:D

    • January 20, 2011 at 6:12 pm

      Ilm means Knowledge; so rushing to gain knowledge in response to Allah’s command: “Read, In the Name of your Lord”.

  11. January 20, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    Walikum Salam WRBT Akhee…

    About Allah Azzawajal being outside the universe, I think I may have addressed it already wrpt proof from the Quran & Sunnah.

    “Are you secure from the One “above” the heavens?” [Quran 67:16]
    “The Most Merciful has settled over the throne.” [Quran 20:5]
    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) asked the slave girl: “Where is Allah?” and she replied: “Above the heavens.” And he said: “Free her for indeed ‘she is a believer.” Sahih Muslim No.1094

    Also, if we think logically, if Allah was everywhere, then Allah is inside you. So do humans start worshpping each other? That would also imply God is in trash and in stool!! Astagfurillah. Any rational person would dismiss this.

    Regarding Time. The point I was making earlier was that the Universe was not created in 6 earth days but yaum means period of time in Arabic. So is that period 1000 years, 50,000 years, Allah only knows. As far as I know, he did not reveal that with respect to creation of Universe. Lets think this through – who is the audience of Quran? Humans right? So what point is Allah trying to make with the verse in context? Allah is pointing out in the verse you mentioned [Al Hajj: 47], A Day in Allah’s view is with respect to punishment. Allah does not hasten the punishment as it a day is like a 1000 days our time [for punishment]. Ibn Kahir, the famous Quran scholar says regarding this verse: “He does not hasten, for what is counted as a thousand with His creation is as one day with Him…” If you read the entire verse and ponder the context, it is clear:

    “And they ask you to hasten on the torment! And Allah fains not His promise. And verily a day with your Lord is as a thousand years of what you rekon.” [22:47]

    Similarly in other instances a day is referred to as 50,000 years.

    Prophet Muhammad said: ‘Allah said, “The son of Adam annoys Me, for he abuses Ad-Dahr (Time) though I am Ad-Dahr; in My Hands are all things, and I cause the revolution of day and night.”

    In this sunnah, Allah says that He is time, i.e. He created time and He measures and controls it…” See link below for more explanation:
    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/9571

    So does a year with respect to Allah mean 1 year of Human time in all instances? I don’t know for a fact; but from what I have read so far, no. I do know it is used as a point of reference for us to understand and ponder and reflect that there is more to time than our understanding. Example, the rules of our time does not apply, when we die and our spirits leave the body. Allah says every soul will wait for 50,000 years before the Day of reckoning. So how would a soul that died in earth time 1990 and earth year and one that died in 1800 both wait for 50,000 years? Simple, the laws of time (being bound by them) applies only to our Universe and our concept of time applies specifically to our dimension.

    Jazak Allah Khairan akhee.

  12. January 20, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    And last but not the least,

    The Big Bang is mentioned in the Quran 1400 years ago! When scientists discovered the theory in 1970 and got a noble piece prize for it. If we apply the law of probaility take 3 scientific facts mentioned out of the 1000 or so verses science related, the probability of them being correct guesses turns out to be .0017% Then if we take all the science related verses confirmed by the modern scientific facts, the impossibility of them being correct guesses is absolutely clear and the fact that it is revealed by a Divine source is clear.

    See http://www.irf.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=212&Itemid=186

    So if so many facts regarding the creation and nature of Universe is true in the Quran, obviously the number of days (period of time) to create is true too.


    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/20613/universe%20created%20in%206%20days

  13. January 20, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    Regarding the Spirit question: This is the same logic as when I say my watch. I don’t mean my watch is a part of me but it is something that I own or created. See this for clarification:

    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/50774/

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